Comments on: Are 400 Pull Kills Good Design? Are They Fun?

By: The future of leveling | Game Ninja

The future of leveling | Game Ninja — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 00:01:56 +0000

[...] if your guild can’t beat a raid encounter, there is nothing to do but try and try again, up to 400 wipes before success having been reported. If you need to beat an encounter to get the next better gear, but can’t beat the encounter [...]

By: Ragnaros is a Stupid Jerk

Ragnaros is a Stupid Jerk — Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:53:12 +0000

[...] I’m in for a night of 10-15 wipes is really disheartening. To answer Beru’s Question: Are 400 pulls fun? NO.I feel like I have nothing new to write about because all I am doing is the same old thing week [...]

By: Episode 41 – The Repeated Routs by Ragnaros « Blessing of Frost

Episode 41 – The Repeated Routs by Ragnaros « Blessing of Frost — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:25:20 +0000

[...] posted her thoughts about Heroic Ragnaros in late October on her blog, in a post called “Are 400 Pull Kills Good Design? Are They Fun?“. It was talked about over at MMO Melting Pot as well (read the comments on both posts! [...]

By: A Problematic Choice and For Once I did Well « Sheep The Diamond

A Problematic Choice and For Once I did Well « Sheep The Diamond — Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:46:32 +0000

[...] WoW engenders a lot of negativity, even turning close friends into enemies or hardworking, respectable guidlies into slackers in other player’s eyes. Seems like a bad thing, doesn’t [...]

By: Reflections of a Firelord « Falling Leaves and Wings

Reflections of a Firelord « Falling Leaves and Wings — Mon, 07 Nov 2011 19:16:30 +0000

[...] point goes, I don’t really think that I’ve changed my opinion on the matter since my post addressing this very issue. I think the fight was too long. I think underlying mechanics were [...]

By: Too Long; Didn’t Listen episode 2 — PEZ!

Too Long; Didn’t Listen episode 2 — PEZ! — Thu, 03 Nov 2011 17:05:16 +0000

[...] Reference: Falling Leaves and Wings — “Are 400-pull kills good design?” [...]

By: WoW – Gildenraid Update | Gamma Alive

WoW – Gildenraid Update | Gamma Alive — Mon, 31 Oct 2011 12:32:34 +0000

[...] unnötig gewiped sind ein Fortschritt erkennbar. Ich bin auf jeden Fall noch nicht im Stadium von Beruthiel angekommen Diese Woche wird vermutlich ein Termin ausfallen, aber nächste Woche geht es dann [...]

By: Masith

Masith — Sat, 29 Oct 2011 06:06:34 +0000

We am not quite at your stage but we’re getting there. I am the raid leader for our guild and I think the most annoying thing about the encounter for me is the lack of consistency of progress. We saw legs for the first time last week (with 4 meteors and a half dead raid but still…) but since that point I would say we only reach phase 3 10% of the time the rest of the time is wipes due to individual errors in p2 or transitions. The worst thing about this is as a raid leader there is nothing you can do about it beyond asking people to stop making mistakes. The raid gets annoyed because one player stopped progress, the player is unhappy because they know it and morale is low at the end of the night because it feels like you aren’t making progress. I honestly loved learning phase 2 the mechanics were hard with almost no RNG involved and every pull learnt something and did a little better. Now it doesn’t feel like that because the majority of tries we don’t get anywhere near the phase we are supposed to be learning.

Having said this much of the above is me blowing off steam. I largely play this game because I enjoy eading a team of people I like to overcome the most challenging things the game throws at us. Of course I’m a couple of weeks behind you so ask me in 3 weeks and maybe I will say screw the challenge….

By: Borsked » Fact Checks & Talking Points

Borsked » Fact Checks & Talking Points — Fri, 28 Oct 2011 18:34:56 +0000

[...] few days ago Beru posted a little something about whether or not a 400+ pull Heroic Rag is an inherently “fun” design. It’s a [...]

By: Shintar

Shintar — Thu, 27 Oct 2011 08:31:45 +0000

I haven’t actually done Ragnaros, but just reading your description there reminded me of Sindragosa back in the day. It didn’t take us long to master the ground and air phase, but the final phase was really difficult to coordinate; yet you couldn’t practice it without going through the entirety of the rest of the fight every time. It was just so tedious, and eventually people would end up messing up even the comparatively easy things in the earlier phases simply because they couldn’t focus anymore. Your description of Raggy sounds exactly like that.

So, I reckon it’s not difficulty itself that’s the problem, but a combination of the length of the fight and its pacing. I maintain a dislike for Sindragosa to this day, and not just because of her grating voice.