Comments on: Eight Days

By: Maalin

Maalin — Fri, 09 Dec 2011 04:48:54 +0000

I completely agree with Blizzard and with you, Beru, on this. What has dismayed me over the years is the number of people who would look at your store example and say, “Yes, it’s ok because this is a virtual world.” What is it with that? If it’s wrong, it’s wrong. The virtual setting doesn’t make it ok. On the other hand, I’m one of those people who would not do the “torture the prisoner” quest in the Borean Tundra either. It just felt wrong.

By: kesithgaming

kesithgaming — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 20:21:12 +0000

This is really how Blizzard should handle exploits going forward, as they seem to be more routinely used by those in the world first races. Basically it seems like the biggest penalty for any of these guilds would be to make it so they are forced to sit out of the race, so they are forced to. Now granted it seems these guilds are driven enough to where eight days won’t be a huge setback, but it may be enough to make them think twice before they run off and use whatever exploit pops up in the first tier of the next expansion.

By: Galashin

Galashin — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 14:28:00 +0000

So you put them in the last starting position. They didn’t actually get an advantage yet–they *tried* to get an advantage. You still have the opportunity to negate their attempt, plus a bit (there’s the preventative measure).

If the point of the practice laps is determining starting position, and someone cheats on the practice laps, give them the worst starting position.
If someone cheats during the actual race, you give them the worst race result.
If someone cheats during the actual race, and you don’t catch them until after the fact, *that’s* when your only available option is to stop them from competing in future races.

And notice, in fact, that it’s when the individual is caught *after* “getting away with it” that they receive the most harsh punishment. There’s all the disincentive to cheat you need.

By: Deppi

Deppi — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:59:07 +0000

We had the discussion in Vent before the raid tonight and it was very divisive. In the end our GM had to shut us all up as it was escalating to be a bit unpleasant.
It seems to me that those who used the glitch are being unfairly demonized by a whole chunk of the community. They didn’t have the advantage of the hindsight we have now. They were in a race, a race that they spend a great deal of time and energy trying to win. Someone made a time-pressured call to go down a path that it seemed like others in the race were already running down–a path that Blizzard seemed to have provided, and were possibly OK with, since they knew about it since the PTR. There was not the complete certainty on the day that people are now ascribing.

They didn’t write code, or hack code. Nobody got hurt, nobody died, nobody got a First. Yeah, they deserved to have the gear taken off them. Maybe they had to be suspended because it was all so visible. But I can’t come at some of the bad mouthing and deprecating comments that they are copping now.

By: Mr C

Mr C — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:09:51 +0000

I told the raiders in my guild to not even think of using this exploit as it was just bad and illegal, and i was pretty sure a ban would be the result.

After logging in yesterday evening i was glad to see everyone online and no bans in our regular roster.

So, hands up from the people who thought they could get away with a stunt like this then? Decking yourself out in LFR gear within a week and thinking blizz wouldn’t take notice or wouldn’t care?
I just sat there reading through the QQ thread of ppl trying to justify something *everyone* knows is just wrong. WRONG.

Those top-guilds that did this with the express purpose of obtaining high rankings are like athletes using illegal performance enhancing substances for the olympic games. The end justifies the means apparently, at least for these peope.

No, just No.

By: Berdache

Berdache — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 11:36:50 +0000

I saw it more like a formula 1 race. On the practice laps to determine starting position on the grid, one of the drivers notices a possible short cut in the track and takes it. All the other drivers see them do it and most follow so they dont drop behind. Is it cheating ? Yes.

In WoW, is loss of the gear and a week ban an appropriate punishment? IMO yes its the ideal punishment not overly harsh but they will definately feel it. Kudos to Vodka for resisting the temptation and it must have been very hard.

By: Galashin

Galashin — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 05:06:17 +0000

Wrong about “the guilds who abused the bug [would] suffer no loss.” They’d have lost one chance at drops per toon. By removing all the gear, you also take away what they could have gotten by running LFR repeatedly, each time with 3 mains (who share no gear) and 22 alts. A ton of people would have two piece available; a decent number would have had four piece. With just a little luck, and by running LFR before the week’s normal raid, all the tanks could have their raid-cooldown-4P bonuses. Lacking those options is a significant penalty on its own.

Note that I certainly don’t condone what they did, I just feel that bans should be reserved strictly for actions that have negatively impacted the experience of other players–which this hadn’t done yet, and a more proportional solution was available that would still ensure it wouldn’t.

By: Galashin

Galashin — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 04:56:53 +0000

While his argument that it’s the fault of the regulators is incomplete at best, he *does* have a point that it’s not all on the bankers. Thousands upon thousands of people spent money that they had no hope of paying back. People are absolute idiots about credit–far too many think it’s just magic, money appearing out of nowhere, with no thought of spending responsibly. Banks shouldn’t have agreed to loans for those people, regulations shouldn’t have allowed them to make the loans anyway, AND the people shouldn’t have spend money they couldn’t pay back. There’s more than enough blame to go around.

By: Galashin

Galashin — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 04:40:01 +0000

No. It’s what the exploit *would* do, if the gear wasn’t removed before it could be used.

By: Galashin

Galashin — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 04:37:51 +0000

From your:
“So why would that thought process change when it comes to something virtual? Substitute Blizzard for the grocer, and substitute the exploiters in the position of the thief. Do our moral values go defunct because we’ve virtualized them? If not, then why would you hold Blizzard any more at fault than you would the grocer?:

I don’t hold Blizzard at fault. But nor did those guilds actually steal anything from the grocer yet.

They found a hole in the back wall. They snuck in. But all they did was pick up some carts and fill them with merchandise–but they didn’t leave the store yet. They didn’t actually accomplish anything that affected other shoppers–or even the grocer, significantly. They didn’t do anything that couldn’t be fixed with having to put everything back on the shelves.

They didn’t actually receive any rewards yet. The gear is NOT a reward–the reward would have been using the gear to help down heroics faster. I don’t feel Blizzard should punish abuse of a mechanic. Instead, they should punish gaining unfair advantages. If the abuse didn’t yet result in an advantage, and the abuse can just be rolled back, then do it. No one complains about cheat codes in single player games–and until (what would have been) tonight’s raid, that’s basically what it was.

Now, had they not been caught yet and used the items tonight, then throw the book at them. That would mean they didn’t just find and mess with a loophole, but they actually impacted the experience of other players. *That* is the issue about which Blizzard must remain vigilant. Take the gear back–all of it, so the proportional punishment is the wasted time and not getting even the one run worth of gear for the week.

Removal from the community should be a punishment reserved for the crime of negatively impacting the experience of other players. That just didn’t happen, here.