/shameface   18 comments

Hello.  My name is Beru, and I have done something of which I am not proud.  (Hi, Beru).

I think that there must have been some wierd alignment of the planets last night or something, because I wasn’t the only one behaving a bit oddly.  Seriously.  Ok, to my tale…

I run an Alt/Friends & Family 25 man ToC every week on Tuesday.  It’s all members of our guild (we had a few from a small 10 man guild that we were quite friendly with, but their guild has dissolved a bit and a good number of their members have joined our F/F ranks), and we set pretty strict loot rules before our very first raid a month or so ago.  There isn’t really any drama, and it’s mostly everyone having a lot of fun for a couple of hours on an off night.  The runs tend to go fairly smoothly, with a stumble here and there on Faction Champs and Anub, but we usually finish early enough that we have time to trek over to Ony and knock her out too.

I have been taking my paladin to these runs since their inception.  The biggest upgrade for her at this point is a healing weapon, as I have been unable to upgrade the Naxx 10 mace I had been using since…well, Naxx 10.  This has not been for a lack of trying though.  I lost the roll on the 10 man ToC mace to a guy who plays once or twice a week (but, hey, it’s ok, I told myself, I will have more opportunity to see the item than him since I have the opportunity to do this 10 man every week, and he may not…of course we are assuming that the damn thing will ever drop again).  And I’ve run the 5 man ToC heroic until my eyes have bled to no avail (I have earned over 100 champion seals on Dannie solely from this running instance).  So this weapon issue is a bit of a sore spot for me.

I bought Dannie all of the 232 badge gear from emblems of triumph, not really worrying much about the 245 trophies, and generally I leave these 25 man runs not having received a loot most of the nights that we run them, and I’m fine with that.  This is largely because I desperately need a weapon upgrade, and so I kindly pass the paladin loots to the other paladin that runs these raids with us 95% of the time.  In all the time that we’ve been running this group, I have taken a total of two loots.  A shield (that upgraded my Emblem of Heroism shield) and a cloak (that upgraded my Emblem of Valor cloak).

I had no problems passing on the other items, because well, I just had different gear priorities, and because I had been running the 10 man ToC regularly so the 25 man items were minor upgrades for me compared to other people.  This is generally my loot M.O. (and should be most people’s best practice, honestly).  I tend to look to see what other people might be upgrading if an item is a marginal upgrade for me before opting to put in my roll for the item.

So, let’s fast forward to last night.  As per usual, we get to Anub and I’ve again not taken any loots in the zone for the evening.  And wonder of all wonders, the healing mace drops!  Of our group, both druids have already taken multiple items, our priest took a trophy earlier in the evening, we have no caster shaman, and the other paladin took an off spec breast plate earlier, but was using the ToC10 mace.  So, I hold my breath and roll…a fucking 11. 

The priest that already won an item rolls, but states he’s already taken something that evening.  We are calling “last call” for rolls on the item, and I start to breathe a sigh of relief thinking to myself “that other paladin is going to refrain from rolling, because he’s already got such a good item, and it’s a much larger upgrade for me”.  But alas, at the last minute he rolls, easily topping my 11.

I am devisated.  A river of emotions wash through me as a grudingly award the mace to him.  I’m angry, frustrated, disapointed.  I run these every week for people, and ask for very little back in return.  And this, in all honesty, made me feel like not doing it anymore.  Had it been reversed and he had the horrible item, and I had the item in which this was a minor upgrade, I damn well would have passed it.  Not to mention that over the course of all our runs, I’ve had TWO loots to his many.

Now, I’m really not one to complain about loot or cause trouble over loot.  It is just not how I function.  I generally accept my losses, privately expressing my disappointment, if I have any, to Brade and I move on.  But dammit, this just felt unjust to me.  Granted, some of it is my own fault.  We use a free roll system, because I do not want to do the work of tracking loot for our alt runs.  We ask people to be considerate, and generally speaking most folks are.  But because we don’t track overall loots, just loots per run, I basically dug my own hole.  Made even deeper by the fact that the more times I passed loot to him, the less likely it was he was going to take loot in a future run.

Now here is the part that I’m not proud of, no, fully ashamed.  I actually sent this player a tell about it.  I have never, in my 5 years of playing WoW, ever done this before.  “You know, I have only ever taken one loot from here ever (I had forgotten about the cloak), and I am still using a Naxx 10 mace”.  He opened the trade window and put the mace in, I declined.  “You won the roll, I am just a bit surprised that you rolled since you’d just gotten the 10 man mace last week =/”.  He opens trade again and puts the mace in.  “Are you sure”, I said “because you did win the roll”.  “Take it, Naxx 10 is pretty ghetto.  I just roll and ask questions later”.  And so, I shamefully hit the trade button.

As we headed off to Ony, my pride was overcome by shame and guilt was flooding over me.  I had just been that person that I hate.  But, I still felt I was entitled to that damn mace taking all the factors into consideration.  And I hated myself for feeling that way.  I asked him again if he was sure, because I was feeling highly ashamed at having even said anything, to which he responded that it was fine.

But the truth is, it wasn’t fine.  I wasn’t fine.  If I didn’t do something, I would never be able to equip the mace and use it.

After the raid concluded, I sat at the mailbox with it open and 5k gold in the send window for quite sometime.  I thought “well, if I ‘buy’ the roll from him, I’ll feel less guilty about it”.  But in the end, I knew that he would just send it back, and I would not feel absolved for what I had done.  I finally logged off and went to dinner.

As I was driving to the restraunt, I racked my brain for something that would make up for my behaviour.  Even if he didn’t see it as an issue, I did, and it would eat me up until I fixed it.  So, I was thinking what I could do.  I knew I wanted to do something for an alt, because his main doesn’t have much need.  His paladin is quite well equiped, and doing the alt runs, so I’d be hard pressed to make up for it there.  And then it hit me.  I knew what I could do.

He has a warrior that he’s been leveling that is almost level 80…and has nothing.  Perfect!  When I got home from dinner I hopped onto the good ole bank alt and AH’d the mats that I would need to make him a couple of BoE epic tanking items.  I got Brade’s blacksmith to craft them for me, and I was good to go.

I sent him a tell, as he was in an instance asking if he would be finished soon.  He told me probably not, and that they were probably heading to another instance after.  So, I explained to him that I was really very ashamed at having said anything about the mace, I had acted in a highly uncharacteristic way for me, and I was not proud of it.  I told him that I felt I needed to make it up to him, and had crafted him a few pieces for his warrior…who would need some “un-ghettofying” shortly.

I linked him the two items I had made (226 belt and 245 bracers), and he went “Holy Shit”.  He told me it really wasn’t necessary, to which I explained that while I understood he felt that way, it would help me sleep better.  He said “well, I won’t turn them down…and if it will help you sleep better and all…”.  So, I told him that I’d toss the items in the mail to him, and we’d call it even.  And he was very happy.

While I still feel horribly ashamed and I will probably never look at that mace on my paladin without feeling a twinge of guilt (along with a permanent reminder to keep my damn mouth shut), I do feel that my return offering, if you will, was well received, much loved, and was able to provide me some peace.

So, what do you think?  Should I have said something, or just shut my mouth?  What would you have done?  Have you ever done something that you immediately regretted?

Posted October 21, 2009 by Beruthiel in /shame, Alt-aholic!, Paladin Healing

18 responses to “/shameface

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  1. while i don’t think it was nice what you said to the other pally, i think it was really nice you did apologize to him and sent him some sweet gear for his warrior. ah… maybe next time you could ask if the winner would be willing to give you the loot?

    personally i keep my mouth shut when it comes to loot b/c i rationalize that i will eventually see it again and i’m doing ok healing with my current gear. but i know how frustrating it can be seeing someone keep getting gear.

    and yeah, i’ve done something i regretted. but we’re human and we make mistakes.

    • Well, I wasn’t rude or mean about it, I don’t think, I just sort of pointed it out. I also did not demand that he give it to me, which I have certainly seen other people do, which would have been far worse, I think!

      I probably should have kept my trap shut, but something about that moment and that particular item just snapped me. However, in the future I will probably refrain from saying anything, if for no other reason than how awful I felt after having spoken up.

      • i’m sure you weren’t rude or mean, i just interpreted it that way, sorry. and well, it could’ve been worse where you went on a rampage and really made a scene. =P

        and maybe changing the loot rules a little to a one loot per person unless no one wants it might help?

        keep up the great blog. i enjoy reading it! =D

  2. *hugs* Beru you hold yourself to an impossibly high standard – I’m sure it’s part of the reason you’re fantastic but you really should cut yourself a break sometimes.

    Not to make it all about me, but I had a similar thing happen to me in the casual TotC-10 run I did last Saturday … except in the other direction. The mace dropped, I saw shinies flash before my eyes and rolled (despite already having upgraded my belt earlier in the run) – beating the other healer’s pathetic roll of, actually, I think 11 now I look back on it.

    Nobody said anything but there was affectionate ribbing from the rest of the raid (who all knew each other, apart from noobie me) which basically implied that the guy had some sort of repulsion field for caster maces. Whereupon I inspected him and, yes indeed, he was armed with a blunt toothpick. Whereas I have Mariel’s Deepsea Diving Helmet – which is a perfectly decent caster mace.

    And let’s not forget this was the same guy who had basically held my hand through the entire instance, talked me through the fights, directed me when I’d screwed up, covered for me on several occasions … and I’d just nicked his mace.

    Beru, *I* felt ashamed and hastily traded it to him. He was politely reluctant but I insisted.

    I think, unless you’re super alert, or leading the raid, it is all too easy to pay very little attention to loot except that which goes to you, of course. Generally you even forget who passes and who gets what. Also with the new loot-trading I think more than ever people are inclined to just roll and see what happens – becuase you can always rectify mistakes afterwards.

    I guess what I’m trying to say in a long-winded way is that I believe loot-rules are generally becoming more communicative than they used to be, and actually people ought to speak up when rolls fall out weird. I’m not saying they should be emotionally blackmailing each other but I think people remember trades better than they do passes – and I think this informs loot decisions in the future. So although the pally probably didn’t remember all the time you passed, you will remember the trade.

    Don’t feel bad – I think the paladin probably felt just as bad for having selfishly grabbed the mace from you, hence his willingness to trade it.

    • Tam, you are so sweet. Thank you for your kind words.

      You may be correct, he didn’t hesitate a second to trade the mace to me when I spoke up. He also does often weigh upgrades when we raid on our mains, so I know he is generally consientious. It could well be that he didn’t realize I had taken so little over the runs, or what weapon I was using.

      I was only so aware because, well, it was me and I was the one that had been passing on everything! And because I run raid tracker for all our raids, so it picks up everyone’s drops.

      I have also heard him vent frustration when he lost something that he really wanted, of course we do loots quite differently in our main raids, so it would have never been an issue there 🙂

      I really, truly am a gracious loot loser, and this was very uncharacteristic behaviour for me.

  3. Aww Beru. I think what happened is totally understandable. It can be difficult when how you consider rolling on loot (is it a bigger upgrade for me or guildie X?) may not always align with how guildies consider rolling on loot (roll on everything even if its a tiny upgrade).

    It was super nice of you to make those items for him. Though you probably didn’t have to do it at all (especially since he won the 10 man mace last week), it was a pretty nice touch.

    But yeah, free rolls on loot is nice and easy, but gets tough when some folks are looking to upgrade their individual gear in any way possible vs those folks who are looking for the bigggest upgrade/improvement for the raid.

    • Thanks K 🙂

      You are right though, when we don’t track loots over raids, and a lot folks are on their alts, sometimes people forget about the considerations they have when raiding on their mains and trying to upgrade the team for success as opposed to upgrading themselves.

  4. Beru, it’s not cool, but you recognize it and did what you could to mend it, so you should make peace with it and go on. Back in BC, I was the one who could never, ever, win a heal weapon roll. The only time I cracked was the night in Kara when the Maiden dropped her mace, and another druid, who had just flaunted the healing staff from H-MgT at me the day before, bid and won it. I was using a blue. I didn’t complain to him, but the GM got wind of it, and I’m not proud of that, either. It was a guild run with dkp, and he had the write to bid on what he wanted, and he of course, had more dkp than me, who was fairly knew at the time. I ended up pvping for a heal mace, because no mace in Kara ever did drop for me. So I totally understand how you feel.

    in LK, After watching it go to others 5 times, I finally won a roll on Torch of Holy Fire when it was still the best heal weapon in the game, so the curse was finally lifted. I’m still using it, because those 550/621sp heal weapons keep eluding me. I have already decided if a 550sp drops, I will let it go to another healer still using 487 or less. But if the 621sp drops, I am rolling! 🙂 I can pass on a 30 sp increase, but not a 100. 🙂

    • Kayeri – There was part of the problem though, if we had used a DKP system or considered previous loots, it would have been mine hands down. Of course, being the person to set the loot rules, that places it squarely as my fault. (Ironically enough, before the ToC 10 mace this paladin was using a Torch of Holy Fire as well).

      Had the situations been reversed, I would have openly passed on it…but that is just me and I tend to be very concientious of what loots I take and what other people are using before taking an item.

      I certainly don’t mean to excuse my behaviour by any means, just explain some of my frustrations a bit. I wasn’t rude to him, or demanding, I just expressed my disapointment a bit…and I did it privately. I didn’t make a huge ordeal or drama production about it, although I am sure others in the raid knew I was upset/frustrated.

      That being said, it is something I certainly will not do again.

  5. Sounds to me like the only mistake you made was to assume that everyone keeps track of loot as meticulously as you do. 🙂 I mean, from the sounds of it that paladin didn’t mean to be greedy either, he just didn’t keep track of who’s got what equipped and who won what else. He probably just figured that if someone else wanted that item really badly they’d have said so… which you did in the end and he didn’t mind. No loot drama, just a communication mishap. 😉

    • Shintar – We run raid tracker to keep track of the goodies distributed for all of our raids, so it’s easy to see who has gotten what over the course of the time and also to make sure that on our twink runs we don’t acidentally award to someone who has already gotten an item for the evening.

      Of course, being the party that hadn’t taken anything and had passed on lots of things, it is also very easy to be aware of what was or was not taken as well 🙂

      I would agree, I think, that he didn’t mean to be greedy. There was no hesitation to pass the mace to me when I said something, which makes me wonder if he only rolled because he thought I had lost it to the priest that had already taken an item, not realizing that the priest was ineligible for the item. Although, he also had the option to pass without me saying anything and didn’t…but again, he just maybe didn’t realize the impact this particular item would have on me.

  6. You are indeed a sweetie Beru.

    Like many, in our alt/pug runs, we do announce at the beginning it is open roll, but that we also ask people to only get one item a night.

    No loot system is perfect.
    No loot system is perfect.
    No loot system is perfect.

    There’s always going to be some concerns/frustrations and all of us have been ‘shafted’ at times.

    Do the best you can, play fair, and if you get loot, rejoice! You may not have been perfect, but honestly, neither was the pally. He should have passed to you. I personally would have asked before he rolled – would you mind if I take it? and linked my ghetto mace. Then if he rolls, it’s up to him.

    But yes, the simple rule of one loot per night can help a lot. Otherwise, it’s all up to the RNG gods!

  7. I think it was quite understandable for you to feel the way you did. Maybe from a strict loot system perpective the other paladin had the right to roll but I don’t think it was wrong of you to say you were disappointed since it doesn’t seems like something you normally do and then people won’t take it as give-me-the-loot gear complaints. Also it was very nice of you to give him some very nice things in return for the mace. I’m sure the other paladin felt well compensated in the end.

  8. Was just reading thru your post, and was intrigued. I often feel slightly guilty when I even hit the need button. Even if I know I need the item bad but there are others who need it just as bad.

    I would say that you acted in a very mature manner. Anyone who was in your situation would understand the frustration and you shouldn’t feel guilty about it. He was obviously very understanding about it, and was willing to pass you the mace no questions asked.

    Now the fact that you followed up and even made a gift for the guy goes beyond what was required. Just be very grateful for his considerate nature, and give yourself some credit. you shouldn’t feel guilty over this, it was rightly obtained. Not like you ninja’d the darn thing!

    Keep up the attitude, you got the right mindset!

  9. I think we must share the same conscience. I even send feasts to people that will let me run with them. I just can’t handle the thought that I’ve inconvenienced someone.

  10. I wish everyone in my runs would be like you.

    We sometimes do alts runs, or 10-mans when we have to pug a few people to fill a spot. So those runs have strict rules : need 1st spec, then 2nd spec, one loot per run unless noone wants it, and the orbs at the end for people without loot, or for the guild bank in 25-man, shards for the guild bank too. I just trust people.

    But I have been in a situation a bit like yours. I was in a pug ToC25, and loot rule was like above : roll if needed with priorities and one loot per run. I had a few guildies there too, often with their alt, because their mains, unlike me, were linked to 25 ToC with the guild. I badly needed the range weapon on Jarraxxus (I’m a hunter). And one of the alts of the guild won the xbow… And he began to brag about it in guild chat, saying he was so lucky to get this uber xbow on his alt he plays once a month…

    And I said nothing. I stayed there bitting my lips. I needed this weapon because I’m in a very competitive guild and needed to get the best gear to have a chance at heroic runs. I was new to the guild and didn’t dare talk to that person and ask if I could trade the xbow for a crusader orb I’d won the next roll. Silly useless orb…

    I just, like you, felt really bad about asking someone after they won the roll. I never asked. I regret it very much, you can’t imagine. I still haven’t seen this weapon drop again and have not upgraded my range weapon yet. I haven’t been accepted in heroic runs either. I’m sure he wouldn’t have mind trading me the xbow, because my hunter is my main and every upgrade is good for the guild. And I’m sure he would have made good use of the orb (I sold it 1400 gold).

    You see, this kind of situation is not good anyway. If I’d ask, I’d been like you, just regretting that move I feel is not right, but I regret very much not having ask, because gear is somewhat important at my level if I want to be useful for the guild.

    I sometimes do runs with my druid too, on another server, with friends, and would never take an item over a main character because they need that character to be upgraded in the guild, when my druid is just there to have some fun with friends. I sometimes get /w :
    “Why didn’t you roll, your *insert item here* is crappy !”
    “Yes but Tree/Priest needed it more”
    “But you deserve it”
    “It’s not about deserving it or not”…
    It’s just I would not feel right to take an item over a main character, and I know I am be very pissed off when an alt rolls again my hunter. Some people do not understand.

    I’m sure your guildie felt bad too, when he realized he’d taken that mace when you needed it really much. Sometimes, people just roll and are happy with their shinny new purple, but when faced with others, when they realize that someone needed it more than they do, they don’t mind trading it, it’s fair to share the purple love. 🙂
    Cause RNG has no love or heart, but making a gift to a guildie when RNG was bad, makes people happy.

    Don’t feel bad Beru !

  11. I’m an holy priest with a very good gear, my second spec is “shadow” and ONLY looting as off spec, my dps gear rating is much better than holy.
    Just because dps casters can inherit healing gear, since spirit is good for everyone and cap hit rating is TOO easy.

  12. I understand.

    While your tell was impetuous and made up of the bitterness of your disappointment, many reasonable people would have done the same thing in the same situation, including me. It doesn’t excuse it, but it does mean most of us don’t hold it against you, since it would be so easy for us to do too. It’s not about what the drop was as much as how badly you wanted it. We’ve all wanted things that bad.

    In my guild, we had a problem with people rolling on upgrades that were better for others. The real problem was that nobody ever told anyone when they desperately wanted a drop, so people who didn’t care as much rolled and sometimes won.

    The official fix? The officers began to encourage members to talk about loot and tell each other ahead of time what slot they were really hoping to upgrade.

    I know it’s too late for the situation above, but I think if you just talk to the other paladins (or whichever class you’re on) and say “I’ll probably pass on most items for you, but what I’m really looking for is a good healing weapon upgrade” at the start of every raid, they’ll totally understand and you can avoid having to deal with the guilt of strong negative emotions if they roll against you in ignorance.

    I even did this in VOA when I pugged it — I’d whisper the other druids and let them know “I’m only rolling on healing PVP gear.” Sometimes they would be too, but sometimes they’d let me know “I just want feral, so we’re good.” That way, we’d both pass on what the other wanted and wouldn’t get into a “But I’d be USING IT and it’s just your offspec!” fiasco.


    Try not to beat yourself up too much. If the other pally doesn’t hold it against you, it’s okay to let it go and just remember it as a learning experience.

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